Engaged?

I just got off the phone with an old friend, and by that I mean one I've known a long time. He's actually only forty years old, a youngster in my book.

"So where is Scott getting married?" he asked.

"Jacob's Well, down in Westport," I said. And then, to be cool, I added, "It's an emergent church."

I'll just throw in here that my friend is a pastor, which is the only reason I brought up Scott's association with the emergent movement. I was hoping he could bring me up to speed.

"I don't know what that means. Can you tell me?" he asked.

"A little bit," I answered, "but not enough to be very useful. If in your reading you run across the terms 'post-modern, relevant, and engaged in the culture,' you're getting warmer. Does that help?"

"Not really."

"Well, then," I suggested, "your best bet is to google it."

"What?"

Oh.

Posted by Katy on 07/15/04 at 10:08 AM

Fallible Comments...

The cultural & technological divide! lol. I wouldn't have known about the emergent movement either if it hadn't been for blogs. Ah, what would we do without them? ;)
-----
Posted by irene on 07/16/04 at 07:53 PM
One of my old friends (dating back to my Jesus People days) emailed me after she read this post and then googled to learn about the Emergent movement. "Deja-vu all over again," she said. "It sounds just like us 30 years ago."

Everything old is new again?
Posted by Katy on 07/19/04 at 05:48 PM
Ha! That's what my dad said! :)
Posted by timsamoff on 07/19/04 at 06:41 PM
katy, you had jesus people days?! me too..sort of. they were my first church when i stood up, dusted myself off, and entered a church for the first time in a long time. only to find i had no need to have dusted myself off...;)

and i google just about everything. rarely a day goes by that i don't make good use of that fabulous resource.
Posted by lisa on 07/20/04 at 05:14 AM
Girl, I'm talkin 1971 Jesus Freak! I split my time between a couple of churches in KC. One was "Agape," all kids, all the time. The other was a quiet, respectable non-denom church of middle-aged people who weren't looking for any trouble and then, as the pastor later affectionately chronicled in the church's written history, "God backed up his dump truck."

I was on the truck!

Okay, I told you mine. Now you tell me yours!
Posted by Katy on 07/20/04 at 02:48 PM
Tim, Dads haven't lived this long for nothing!
Posted by Katy on 07/20/04 at 02:49 PM
This might help:

http://sense-datum.org/tim/pivot/entry.php?id=34

(Parents and all.)
Posted by timsamoff on 07/20/04 at 05:04 PM
well...i was living in chicago, going to theatre college, bar hopping/clubbing/God-knows-what doing most of my time..designing at a flower shop in gold coast-ville, and involved in community plays, improv classes, etc. with the rest of my time. God chose to get ahold of me in the middle of some very real and scary personal tragedies there (a couple of deaths too close to me) - introduced me to my future husband who lived around the corner from said coffee shop...after about two weeks of extremely antagonistic arguing over the Gospel, I prayed to ask Jesus in. What a radical 360! someone in chad's ex-moody bible institute crowd took me to jpusa for church, and i went there for the next few months before i left the windy city. in a (rather long) nutshell, there you have it :).

www.justadjust.blogspot.com
Posted by lisa on 07/20/04 at 07:13 PM
I'm sitting here after a very bad day at work, determined to be mad and depressed and to stay mad and depressed when I read... this. And it takes me back.
Back to the early '70s. My fiance said she would marry me if I would go to church with her and I ran smak dab into the Charismatic Movement. I was changed.
Nowadays it seems to me that I'm not as different as I once was. Life happens. Maybe priorities change. Thing seem to be more of a struggle than they were then. Has God changed? Has the church changed? Or have I changed?
I saw a young couple once on the road in Arkansas. They were in a pickup truck with Mississippi plates. I imagined it was the '70s and they were going home from their honeymoon. They had been raised in the same church. Their fathers were board members. While they were gone the Spirit of God moved in. The Church was in turmoil. One dad stood firmly on one side, the other was doing cartwheels on the other.
Has anyone ever written anything on this? The joy, the passion, the trama. Maybe someday.
Posted by Angus Lewis on 07/21/04 at 03:13 AM
Tim, Thanks! I am working my way through the material, and it's helping a lot. Reading your site, Tim Keel's, Will Samson's, tallskinnykiwi's, and others are filling in my understanding. Maybe I'll catch on yet! All prayers appreciated!

Lisa, Yours is a good story. Thanks! I must admit at first read, though, I thought it said "Chad's ex-Moody Blues" instead of "Chad's ex-Moody Bible"--once again revealing my advanced age!
Posted by Katy on 07/21/04 at 02:50 PM
Angus, I think stuff like you dreamed up about the honeymooning couple happened a lot back then, don't you?

We know so many young marrieds who ended up divorced because one of them was devoted to the direction their church was taking, and the other couldn't go there. We decided early on that our marriage covenant would always take precedence, and that if we had to change churches to find one that was right for both of us, we would.

I'm happy you stopped by! There are some interesting websites chronicle the Jesus People movement, if you're interested. Email me and I'll forward the links.

Regarding who changed? You, God, or the Church? Difficult question, and I don't know the answer for myself. We had that saying back in the day, "If you feel far from God, guess who moved?" But it's not that simple, and it never was. I believe that while God doesn't change, He does move. In the blink of an eye, thirty years or so go by, and we may not be able to find Him in exactly the way we used to. But He's there, still the same God...
Posted by Katy on 07/21/04 at 03:08 PM
Katy, you're too funny! I was going to refer to Scott as a "Jesus Freak", too, just like you were. I can still remember you hauling me to those "freak" houses when I was about 5, wondering what in the world you were "in" to! Ah, the '70s.
Posted by Bridget on 07/23/04 at 12:14 AM
Although I love Jacob's Well as a church, I must say that the emergent movement seems to be just a part of the cycle trying to be something new. (Is it surprising that it reminds so many people of the Jesus People Movement?) Young people testing boundaries again. Despite our disagreements theologically, it makes me miss Guiseppe again and how he could speak so clearly and assuredly about black and white in this world and the next. That man knew truth...and love. Got to miss him.
Posted by Hanna on 07/23/04 at 06:11 PM
"the emergent movement seems to be just a part of the cycle trying to be something new. (Is it surprising that it reminds so many people of the Jesus People Movement?) Young people testing boundaries again."...Hanna, I so agree. while I love a lot of the people I know in this movement, and identify with many of its' views and ideals; it does strike me as exactly this - young people testing boundries, trying to make the timeless truths of God's Word relevant (literally) to their own life and times. To make it out to be much more than that could possibly move it to cult ideology, and i'm sure that's not what it's leaders have in mind. I pray you grow in wisdom and spiritual stature, and in favor with God and man, emergents everywhere :).

www.justadjust.blogspot.com
Posted by lisa on 07/29/04 at 03:35 AM
Bridget, As a little girl, you were a lot like Scott when he was a kid. Both of you enjoyed observing the behaviors of others and didn't jump in unless it felt right for you. Quite the philosophical children!

Hanna, My dear girl! How we miss you here in KC. Have you visited any other emergent churches besides Jacob's Well? I really don't know what the age mix in a typical congregation is, only that the local church "feels" like what Doug and I know from long ago. It's been intimated to me that this current movement is much more intellectual in nature, though. I wish I knew how to take that!

Lisa, Thanks. Hey, the next time you're in the city, let's meet at the church. I want to see your face! Maybe we can test a few boundaries together, what do you say? ;)
Posted by Katy on 07/29/04 at 03:38 PM
katy, i'll be in town on the twenty-first, and we can put a face to a blog, but i don't know that we'll have much time to hang out then ;)..i'd love to grab a latte with you though, and who knows what else some other time!
Posted by lisa on 07/29/04 at 08:50 PM

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Personal blog of christian writer & fallible mom Katy McKenna Raymond in Kansas City, Missouri Katy is represented by Greg Johnson at WordServe Literary Read more Katy at LateBoomer.net Follow Katy on Twitter Follow Katy on Facebook 123 Recent Posts Try Becoming Brenda Starr Off Beat Scattered That’s It So I’ve Finally Signed With An Agent. Now What? The Spoon Sciatica Sweetheart A Woman’s Train of Thought Has No Caboose However much we own, we are all still living on borrowed time After all, when restaurants shrink portions, they don’t shrink prices. As with everything in life, balance is key. Slow down, you move too fast… Yeah, I know. I have issues. Search Advanced Search Syndicate Login E me at katy @ ngenius.com	Engaged? I just got off the phone with an old friend, and by that I mean one I've known a long time. He's actually only forty years old, a youngster in my book. "So where is Scott getting married?" he asked. "Jacob's Well, down in Westport," I said. And then, to be cool, I added, "It's an emergent church." I'll just throw in here that my friend is a pastor, which is the only reason I brought up Scott's association with the emergent movement. I was hoping he could bring me up to speed. "I don't know what that means. Can you tell me?" he asked. "A little bit," I answered, "but not enough to be very useful. If in your reading you run across the terms 'post-modern, relevant, and engaged in the culture,' you're getting warmer. Does that help?" "Not really." "Well, then," I suggested, "your best bet is to google it." "What?" Oh. Posted by Katy on 07/15/04 at 10:08 AM Fallible Comments... The cultural & technological divide! lol. I wouldn't have known about the emergent movement either if it hadn't been for blogs. Ah, what would we do without them? ;) ----- Posted by irene on 07/16/04 at 07:53 PM One of my old friends (dating back to my Jesus People days) emailed me after she read this post and then googled to learn about the Emergent movement. "Deja-vu all over again," she said. "It sounds just like us 30 years ago." Everything old is new again? Posted by Katy on 07/19/04 at 05:48 PM Ha! That's what my dad said! :) Posted by timsamoff on 07/19/04 at 06:41 PM katy, you had jesus people days?! me too..sort of. they were my first church when i stood up, dusted myself off, and entered a church for the first time in a long time. only to find i had no need to have dusted myself off...;) and i google just about everything. rarely a day goes by that i don't make good use of that fabulous resource. Posted by lisa on 07/20/04 at 05:14 AM Girl, I'm talkin 1971 Jesus Freak! I split my time between a couple of churches in KC. One was "Agape," all kids, all the time. The other was a quiet, respectable non-denom church of middle-aged people who weren't looking for any trouble and then, as the pastor later affectionately chronicled in the church's written history, "God backed up his dump truck." I was on the truck! Okay, I told you mine. Now you tell me yours! Posted by Katy on 07/20/04 at 02:48 PM Tim, Dads haven't lived this long for nothing! Posted by Katy on 07/20/04 at 02:49 PM This might help: http://sense-datum.org/tim/pivot/entry.php?id=34 (Parents and all.) Posted by timsamoff on 07/20/04 at 05:04 PM well...i was living in chicago, going to theatre college, bar hopping/clubbing/God-knows-what doing most of my time..designing at a flower shop in gold coast-ville, and involved in community plays, improv classes, etc. with the rest of my time. God chose to get ahold of me in the middle of some very real and scary personal tragedies there (a couple of deaths too close to me) - introduced me to my future husband who lived around the corner from said coffee shop...after about two weeks of extremely antagonistic arguing over the Gospel, I prayed to ask Jesus in. What a radical 360! someone in chad's ex-moody bible institute crowd took me to jpusa for church, and i went there for the next few months before i left the windy city. in a (rather long) nutshell, there you have it :). www.justadjust.blogspot.com Posted by lisa on 07/20/04 at 07:13 PM I'm sitting here after a very bad day at work, determined to be mad and depressed and to stay mad and depressed when I read... this. And it takes me back. Back to the early '70s. My fiance said she would marry me if I would go to church with her and I ran smak dab into the Charismatic Movement. I was changed. Nowadays it seems to me that I'm not as different as I once was. Life happens. Maybe priorities change. Thing seem to be more of a struggle than they were then. Has God changed? Has the church changed? Or have I changed? I saw a young couple once on the road in Arkansas. They were in a pickup truck with Mississippi plates. I imagined it was the '70s and they were going home from their honeymoon. They had been raised in the same church. Their fathers were board members. While they were gone the Spirit of God moved in. The Church was in turmoil. One dad stood firmly on one side, the other was doing cartwheels on the other. Has anyone ever written anything on this? The joy, the passion, the trama. Maybe someday. Posted by Angus Lewis on 07/21/04 at 03:13 AM Tim, Thanks! I am working my way through the material, and it's helping a lot. Reading your site, Tim Keel's, Will Samson's, tallskinnykiwi's, and others are filling in my understanding. Maybe I'll catch on yet! All prayers appreciated! Lisa, Yours is a good story. Thanks! I must admit at first read, though, I thought it said "Chad's ex-Moody Blues" instead of "Chad's ex-Moody Bible"--once again revealing my advanced age! Posted by Katy on 07/21/04 at 02:50 PM Angus, I think stuff like you dreamed up about the honeymooning couple happened a lot back then, don't you? We know so many young marrieds who ended up divorced because one of them was devoted to the direction their church was taking, and the other couldn't go there. We decided early on that our marriage covenant would always take precedence, and that if we had to change churches to find one that was right for both of us, we would. I'm happy you stopped by! There are some interesting websites chronicle the Jesus People movement, if you're interested. Email me and I'll forward the links. Regarding who changed? You, God, or the Church? Difficult question, and I don't know the answer for myself. We had that saying back in the day, "If you feel far from God, guess who moved?" But it's not that simple, and it never was. I believe that while God doesn't change, He does move. In the blink of an eye, thirty years or so go by, and we may not be able to find Him in exactly the way we used to. But He's there, still the same God... Posted by Katy on 07/21/04 at 03:08 PM Katy, you're too funny! I was going to refer to Scott as a "Jesus Freak", too, just like you were. I can still remember you hauling me to those "freak" houses when I was about 5, wondering what in the world you were "in" to! Ah, the '70s. Posted by Bridget on 07/23/04 at 12:14 AM Although I love Jacob's Well as a church, I must say that the emergent movement seems to be just a part of the cycle trying to be something new. (Is it surprising that it reminds so many people of the Jesus People Movement?) Young people testing boundaries again. Despite our disagreements theologically, it makes me miss Guiseppe again and how he could speak so clearly and assuredly about black and white in this world and the next. That man knew truth...and love. Got to miss him. Posted by Hanna on 07/23/04 at 06:11 PM "the emergent movement seems to be just a part of the cycle trying to be something new. (Is it surprising that it reminds so many people of the Jesus People Movement?) Young people testing boundaries again."...Hanna, I so agree. while I love a lot of the people I know in this movement, and identify with many of its' views and ideals; it does strike me as exactly this - young people testing boundries, trying to make the timeless truths of God's Word relevant (literally) to their own life and times. To make it out to be much more than that could possibly move it to cult ideology, and i'm sure that's not what it's leaders have in mind. I pray you grow in wisdom and spiritual stature, and in favor with God and man, emergents everywhere :). www.justadjust.blogspot.com Posted by lisa on 07/29/04 at 03:35 AM Bridget, As a little girl, you were a lot like Scott when he was a kid. Both of you enjoyed observing the behaviors of others and didn't jump in unless it felt right for you. Quite the philosophical children! Hanna, My dear girl! How we miss you here in KC. Have you visited any other emergent churches besides Jacob's Well? I really don't know what the age mix in a typical congregation is, only that the local church "feels" like what Doug and I know from long ago. It's been intimated to me that this current movement is much more intellectual in nature, though. I wish I knew how to take that! Lisa, Thanks. Hey, the next time you're in the city, let's meet at the church. I want to see your face! Maybe we can test a few boundaries together, what do you say? ;) Posted by Katy on 07/29/04 at 03:38 PM katy, i'll be in town on the twenty-first, and we can put a face to a blog, but i don't know that we'll have much time to hang out then ;)..i'd love to grab a latte with you though, and who knows what else some other time! Posted by lisa on 07/29/04 at 08:50 PM Page 1 of 1 pages Commenting is not available in this weblog entry. Next entry: The Poop on the Democrats Previous entry: Meow! << Back to main


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Personal blog of christian
writer & fallible mom
Katy McKenna Raymond
in Kansas City, Missouri